EVE Search - Stacking penalty explained

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Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 10:21:00 - [1] I've seen a lot of people have the idea that it is useless to fit more than one module that that is subject to the stacking penalty. That is simply not the case. Let's say that we have a module that gives a 10% bonus. By fitting one you of course get the 10% bonus, when you fit 2 you get a total 17.4% bonus and so on all according to the stacking penalty formula. (mod_1...mod_n)^((1/n)^0.25) To make it more graphical for you have constructed this image. Here the solid line is if there were no stacking penalty at all and the crosses are the total bonus with a stacking penalty. I also made this image where you can see how much you get from each mod (of course this only makes sense when we have modules that give the same bonus. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 10:21:00 - [2] I've seen a lot of people have the idea that it is useless to fit more than one module that that is subject to the stacking penalty. That is simply not the case. Let's say that we have a module that gives a 10% bonus. By fitting one you of course get the 10% bonus, when you fit 2 you get a total 17.4% bonus and so on all according to the stacking penalty formula. (mod_1...mod_n)^((1/n)^0.25) To make it more graphical for you have constructed this image. Here the solid line is if there were no stacking penalty at all and the crosses are the total bonus with a stacking penalty. I also made this image where you can see how much you get from each mod (of course this only makes sense when we have modules that give the same bonus. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 10:49:00 - [3] Originally by: KingsGambit That is great info...any chance of another graph identical to the first, except with grid lines and a different colour connecting the "with penalty" line? I can sorta understand the second one though my brain wants to see it the other way round! Perhaps a graph with an actual example (eg 1-8 Damage Mods)? Real numbers would be fantastic you cruncher you :) I put grids on the images and they look now imo a whole lot better Heat sink II actually gives 10% increase to damage so those images could be useful for those gankageddon pilots. Will try to do one for ballistic controls I later today. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 10:49:00 - [4] Originally by: KingsGambit That is great info...any chance of another graph identical to the first, except with grid lines and a different colour connecting the "with penalty" line? I can sorta understand the second one though my brain wants to see it the other way round! Perhaps a graph with an actual example (eg 1-8 Damage Mods)? Real numbers would be fantastic you cruncher you :) I put grids on the images and they look now imo a whole lot better Heat sink II actually gives 10% increase to damage so those images could be useful for those gankageddon pilots. Will try to do one for ballistic controls I later today. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 22:03:00 - [5] Originally by: mahhy Try the same graph with 150 low slots (yes 150) just for fun. Then look at the difference between a module and the previous module. You'll notice that the benefit the module gives compared to the previous module starts increasing at the 7th module for a 10% bonus. So module 7 gives a larger increase in damage mod (T2 HS being the example) compared to the 6th module. 8th module is in turn a bigger increase than 7th module. And it only grows from there. By the time you hit 29 modules, there is no stacking "penalty" and you end up gaining more than 10% Course who doesn't want a ship with 30 low slots! Course, if the percentage bonus increases, the point where you start seeing increased returns is decreased. With a 15% bonus you start seeing module 5 giving larger increases than module 4. Interesting thought considering where Tech 2 is and what we expect to see in Officer modules and future Tech 3. Wow I always thought the bonus would just always decrease but you are right and I constructed a graph where we have 20% bonus instead of 10% and above the 5th module you start seeing the bonus increase again lookie __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 22:03:00 - [6] Originally by: mahhy Try the same graph with 150 low slots (yes 150) just for fun. Then look at the difference between a module and the previous module. You'll notice that the benefit the module gives compared to the previous module starts increasing at the 7th module for a 10% bonus. So module 7 gives a larger increase in damage mod (T2 HS being the example) compared to the 6th module. 8th module is in turn a bigger increase than 7th module. And it only grows from there. By the time you hit 29 modules, there is no stacking "penalty" and you end up gaining more than 10% Course who doesn't want a ship with 30 low slots! Course, if the percentage bonus increases, the point where you start seeing increased returns is decreased. With a 15% bonus you start seeing module 5 giving larger increases than module 4. Interesting thought considering where Tech 2 is and what we expect to see in Officer modules and future Tech 3. Wow I always thought the bonus would just always decrease but you are right and I constructed a graph where we have 20% bonus instead of 10% and above the 5th module you start seeing the bonus increase again lookie Original Mr Floppyknickers sig
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 22:09:00 - [7] Originally by: JaiMaster correct you are Shields w/ photon hardners (mid) (50%) 0 - 100% dmg 1 - 50% dmg 2 - 25% dmg 3 - 12.5% dmg each additional mod halving the dmg done without it The shield hardeners do also have a stacking penalty so for using 2 of the same type you get (0.5*0.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312 or so you have a total resistance of 31.2%. Btw with a little rewriting of the formula you can shorten it if all the bonuses are the same to bonus^(n^0.75) Just remember if the bonus gives you 10% you put 1.1 and if it decreases by 10% you put in 0.9. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 22:09:00 - [8] Originally by: JaiMaster correct you are Shields w/ photon hardners (mid) (50%) 0 - 100% dmg 1 - 50% dmg 2 - 25% dmg 3 - 12.5% dmg each additional mod halving the dmg done without it The shield hardeners do also have a stacking penalty so for using 2 of the same type you get (0.50.5)^((1/2)^0.25) = 0.312 or so you have a total resistance of 31.2%. Btw with a little rewriting of the formula you can shorten it if all the bonuses are the same to bonus^(n^0.75) Just remember if the bonus gives you 10% you put 1.1 and if it decreases by 10% you put in 0.9. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig*
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 23:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 30/01/2005 23:24:26 Originally by: qyros Sorry professor, just a minor clarification and no dishonouring of your work. Resistance would be 1 - 0.312?. Thanks for that I always seem to think about how much damage leaks through Edit: Pottsey I made some measurements and replied in your old thread. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.01.30 23:24:00 - [10] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 30/01/2005 23:24:26 Originally by: qyros Sorry professor, just a minor clarification and no dishonouring of your work. Resistance would be 1 - 0.312?. Thanks for that I always seem to think about how much damage leaks through Edit: Pottsey I made some measurements and replied in your old thread. Original Mr Floppyknickers sig

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